This is my first guest post here on Listen to the Voices... and if it goes well, I will have many more. I'm so excited to introduce Robin Spano, the writer of Dead Politician's Society. Take it away, Robin!
I loved the beginning of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Then the book fell apart. The plot was incoherent, too many names sounded the same, and there were probably too many characters. Not only could I not follow the story of the long-ago murder case; I didn’t care. I kept reading — the writing was good enough and the characters unique enough that I enjoyed the book overall. But what Stieg Larsson lacked was an edit phase — a time when outside opinions can shape a first draft into a great final product.
It’s not Larsson’s fault — he died right before his book went into editing, and his publisher didn’t want to edit without him. But writers who are still alive can avoid similar misfortune. Don’t push your freshly finished manuscript on everyone you know, but if your neighbor or your grocer or your best friend’s dog-walker offers to take a look, say yes before they have the chance to change their mind.
When someone gives me feedback, I’ll listen to anything they say, but mostly I’m looking for 4 things:
1. What works? This isn’t an ego thing (well, maybe partly). But it’s important to know what hits a reader in a good way, so when you’re going through your MS and gutting it, you don’t remove parts that strike a chord for people.2. What doesn’t work? If a reader finds a scene or a line that jars them—maybe a character sounds more naïve than you’d like her to, maybe you have someone holding a gun in a ridiculously wrong way — it’s important to know these things. On a general level, maybe the killer’s motivation isn’t clear enough, or your book has too many sarcastic brunettes. Better to find out before the book hits shelves than to hear it from the critics later.
3. Answers to questions. I’m too close to my manuscript to see certain things. I ask readers things like: Is the killer too obvious too soon? When they’re revealed, do you feel satisfied or let down? Are there enough clues?
OPTIONAL:
4. How can I change it? This isn’t a reader’s job — just telling me what doesn’t work is enough to highlight areas I need to fix. But when they have ideas, I love hearing them.
So great — you have all this feedback. You have six people telling you six different things, and you don’t know how to incorporate it into your manuscript. This is what I do:
1. Listen with an open mind. Trust that the opinion is coming from a good place; that this reader is trying to help you make your manuscript stronger.
2. When I hear a suggestion I agree with on impact, I make the change.
3. When I disagree, or if I’m not immediately sure, I file the suggestion (I keep them in a Word document). Maybe my critic is giving me advice that’s wrong for my book. But maybe it’s not wrong. As more feedback comes in, I compare the opinions and weigh them against my own.
4. Make my own decision. Maybe ten people want me to move the story to Helsinki from Toronto. If it doesn’t feel right, I won’t do it.
My first draft of Dead Politician Society was pretty bad. I think its basics were solid, but it had several of the problems I saw in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo — too many characters, too much name similarity, and a plot that needed tightening. If it hadn’t been for the people who helped me gut the MS and doctor it into readability, I wouldn’t be nearly so happy about releasing it into the world.
I love helping my writer friends with their manuscripts, too. This is a tricky industry to forge a career in, but when writers can help writers get stronger at their craft, we’re pushing each other forward and helping each other thrive.
Clarissa is doing something really cool with her chapter reviews here on Listen to the Voices. Not only is she giving killer feedback that a writer can use to improve, but she’s doing it in public and helping people see what good critiquing is. I’m thrilled to include such a supportive writing community on my virtual book tour, and I urge everyone with a chapter of writing to submit if for Clarissa’s kick-ass review.
(P.S. If you scroll back a few entries you can see how she pulled apart the 1st chapter of Dead Politician Society. Feel free to leave comments about whether you agree or disagree.)
Thank you, Robin, for that wonderful post. You can check out her webpage here. Tomorrow is another first for me. I'm interviewing a MUSIC GROUP! Check it out!

34 comments:
I enjoyed this, thank you. I have a million questions about editors, etc. I am a reader who does not judge what I read, so as a writer, I know this process will be excruciating to me when I get there. As a reader, if I like something I keep going but if I don't like the "feel" of it, I just shut the book not knowing exactly "why" I don't like it. Maybe I should analyze a bit more so I can take that into my own writing. Hmmm..... Love your information-packed blogs!! I am aoaking it in!
I have a problem, i cant put a book down good or bad cos i keep on feeling it would get better.
I am still learning to do edits but this was very helpful thank you
Robin and Clarrisa, great guest post! I love hearing how other writers do it. It's fascinating. =) Thanks guys!
JW, it took me a lot of time to learn to analyze. I found that doing reviews for others was a great help because you have to explain what is off about a piece.
Joanna, glad you liked the post. I often put down the book if it's that bad. But, I like to at least get 2/3s done.
Carolyn, oh, glad you liked it.
CD
I used to resist making any changes at all to the manuscript. This is when I used to be known as the Newb. Since then, I always strive for improvement, even if a piece is as close to perfect as possible. I know, I swing from one extreme to the other, another battle I'm fighting almost simultaneously.
My test readers were so important! And I welcomed their suggestions. My manuscript needed it.
Jeffrey, I am known for extremes as well, thanks for your comment.
Alex, I love my test readers because my manu needs it too.
CD
JW, I think you make an important point. Evaluation and critique is really not about judging; it's about sharing your emotional reactions. Sometimes you'll find something that is just wrong (like the gun that the character is shooting wrong), but judgment, in good critiquing, almost never comes into play.
Take a look at the way Clarissa critiques. She never says "This is bad," or "You should do this instead." She says "This hits me wrong," or "For my taste it would be better this way." It's a tiny distinction, but it's huge in how someone will hear it.
Thanks for hosting me, Clarissa. Your blog has so much meat in it; it's a great resource for writers as well as a warm environment for conversation.
Robin, thanks. I tried to look for your blog but I don't think you have one, right?
CD
Thanks a ton, Clarissa. Such a helpful post. I really think you're awesome at what you're doing. Now I need to find some good test readers.
Clarissa, you're right. I don't have a blog; just a website. I use Facebook and Twitter a lot, though. I heard one guy describe that as "micro-blogging," which I liked.
Jared, yeah test readers are great. Let me know how it goes. I'll read the first chapter as part of my critique...
Robin. Am I following those? I'll have to confirm.
CD
Great post, Robin. Thank you for breaking it down so clearly! And I am SO happy you said that about 'The Girl'. I actually couldn't finish it.
Thanks, Talli, for your comment. I want to mention your blogsplash here someday soon. I'll let you know when.
CD
Hey Clarissa,
Dropped an award on the blog for ya. Come by & grab it when you get a chance - because you're the bestest.
Thanks,
Patti Struble
I'm always nervous about other people reading my work. I know there is no pleasing everyone, but the people-pleaser in me still rears her ugly head. Sometimes she even keeps me from finishing a piece.
Thanks Robin and Clarissa, for this informative piece.
Cinette
http://cinettesmusings.blogspot.com
Oooh, this is interesting and helpful. Thanks!!
Getting a beta reader was the best thing I could possibly do for my book, and these are wonderful questions that should be asked. One of my problems is that I'm too close to my story and so I don't always recognize what needs to be better explained.
Unfortunately, my writing would NOT be appropriate for Clarissa's blog so I have to pass on this...
Patti, oh, exciting. I'll come check it out.
Cinette, you're welcome.
lbdiamond, glad you liked it.
Amanda, no problem. Thanks for considering me though.
CD
Darn I just received a copy of "A Girl.."
Enjoyed interview and good information. Thanks to both of you. :)
Jules @ Trying To Get Over The Rainbow
What an interesting guest post!
First a Scandinavian comment: I think the names in Stieg Larsson´s books are only confusing to foreign readers. I have heard that before, but never from Danish readers.
And next a question (to Robin, Clarissa, or anyone who has an opinion): what do you do when all your male beta readers think your clues are too few or too subtle, and all your female readers think there are plenty of them and you could remove one or two?
Great information. I hope I can find readers who are able to point out those sorts of things.
Jules, try the book. You might like it. It's a best seller, someone had to like it.
Dorte, I don't think that's a question. It's a fact: Females are smarter than males. Oh boy, what have I done? I just alienated all my male readers. This is what I would do: Remove one or two (because the males are getting them anyways and make the ones you have left clearer. Use different clues as well. Some verbal, some action, some feeling.
Mary, you will.
CD
Lots of good ideas here. Thanks to both of you.
Carol, glad you liked it.
CD
Dorte, cool question. I gauge that from my early readers, which is mostly made up of women, but my friend Scott is a pretty loud voice for the male side. (Though he's great at understanding subtlety; his favorite writer is Alice Munro.)
The name similarity in Dragon Tattoo that floored me: There was a Birger and a Berger. I mean, come on!
Cinette, interesting line about being a people-pleaser. That is a challenge, because you're writing for an audience, but you have to be true to yourself or else why are you doing it? It's one of those things where we all need to find balance. Not easy, but the pursuit is rewarding!
The name confusion thing drives me crazy. Obviously, it hasn't hurt Mr. Larssen's sales, but it isnt' reader-friendly. I just read another bestseller--Lisa Lutz's The Spellman Files, where the heroine's brother is named David and her boyfriend is Daniel. Similar personality types as well. I can't believe no editor spotted it. I had to keep flipping back to figure out which one was in the scene. Otherwise, I loved the book, but it was a distraction. I've ordered the second book. I sure hope she broke up with that boyfriend.
Thanks Robin and Clarissa--great post.
Anne, that's so funny. Yeah, I hate when that happens.
CD
I have to tackle the 'Dragon Tattoo' issue b/c I happen to be reading the third in the series right now.
I had to opposite problem than you with 'Dragon'--I thought the first few chapters were completely dull and could almost be cut entirely! But once it got rolling, I wanted to stick with it. Yes, too many characters is a Larsson problem.
Where the first one meandered and adjectived-you-out, the second one popped and jumped forward at an action-packed pace.
Now, the third is more character-heavy than the first. And on top of that, it is more description and background-heavy as well.
Do I think Larsson was a great writer? No. But he certainly built a lasting and fascinating character in Lisbeth Salander.
You're right, there are many things that can be done to improve a work. but I don't think the writing is what is so appealing to readers of Larsson's trilogy. it is the mystery that is Salander and Larsson rolled into one.
Great post!
Michele
Southern City Mysteries
I've not read The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo yet but was given the book by my daughter who said to not give up on it too easy because the first few chapters are dull and you'll feel you don't want to dedicate any more time to the book, but she said after that - after you hit the wall, I guess - you can't put it down. Now when I finally read it I'll be thinking about your edit phase comment .... coming here is always a learning experience....thanks... :-)
The sad part for me, Michele, is that I thing he WAS a great writer, but was never allowed to shine simply because he missed out on this critical stage.
Anne, LOL, I hope she ditches the boyfriend too!
Rebecca, enjoy! The book really is good, or it wouldn't spark all this discussion. I'm only a few pages into the 2nd, and so far it's even more excellent. (Makes sense; writers learn from their mistakes and get better going forward.)
And Clarissa: I forgot to say I LOVE your title for this post. Totally catchy and funny. Maybe you could do a post on titling. (That's one of my massive weaknesses.)
and when I say "thing" I mean think!
This post has sound advice. I like the idea of sitting on advice that a writer initially disagrees with. Just because something is suggested doesn't mean the writer shouldn't change it, but sometimes it's necessary and some time is needed to mull it over.
I so agree on the Dragon Tattoo- brilliant book, but it really needed editing.
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